Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 <inaudible>
Speaker 1 00:00:04 We all want a business like Netflix or Amazon prime businesses, where once a customer engages with them, it becomes automatic and a part of their lifestyle from then on. But how do you build that forever transaction? I'm Robbie Kellman Baxter, and I have been studying subscription and membership models for nearly 20 years in this podcast, my guests and I share the secrets and strategies of the membership economy. Join us for subscription stories, true tales from the trenches.
Speaker 0 00:00:37 <inaudible>
Speaker 1 00:00:40 Welcome to the show. It's your host, Robbie Kellman Baxter sharing subscription stories with you. And today's guest is Hunter madly. CEO of Vienna. Hunter is a serial SAS entrepreneur. Having been part of the leadership teams of some of the most successful business to business software stories of the past few years, including ADP, Salesforce and HubSpot. I met Hunter when we were both speaking at an LP meeting for a group of fast CEOs and investors. Hunter was talking about the importance of not just blindly following another company's playbook in building a forever promise with their business customers while the same principles can apply. Execution can be wildly different in all ways in terms of how you package and price, how you build relationships with prospects and subscribers and how to support and expand your most important relationships today. We're going to be talking about when to apply your prior playbook and when it doesn't make sense, as well as how to use the concept of free to build community when to prioritize market share versus my chair and how to onboard for engagement and loyalty in a complex business to business environment.
Speaker 0 00:01:55 <inaudible> welcome to the show Hunter. Thanks. Probably happy to be here.
Speaker 1 00:02:04 You were recruited as the CEO of vena in part because of your expertise in software as a service, a B2B subscription model. Can you tell us a little about Venice forever promise?
Speaker 0 00:02:17 Yeah, sure. So, uh, vena effectively as an FP and a financial planning and analysis platform, I I'd frame our forever promise as this commitment to help our customers plan to grow. And so if you think about every businesses, um, operations, they have to marry a strategic operational and financial plans and then execute, you know, at the highest levels and continue to report against that. And you know, what we try to do is provide both methodology and technology to help companies at the front end of their planning, budgeting, and forecasting process, and also to help with the backend with closed management and consolidation and things of that nature. So we're really a front and back end of your planning execution phase. And we're primarily focused on helping companies that sit kind of in the mid market where we think we have, you know, real value. And we think we can have meaningful impact in the market
Speaker 2 00:03:10 Joined from HubSpot and Salesforce at ADP before that, what were the challenges and opportunities that you first saw in your early days of being part of vena?
Speaker 0 00:03:22 No, I've been pretty fortunate in my career and I stumbled into the world of a recurring revenue model or effectively a subscription economy, a membership economy with ADP and early days. People probably wouldn't have talked about it in those terms, but ADP effectively was a very early entrance into, um, into a model that was both financial, but also operational where you basically offered access to computing power through this recurring revenue or subscription service. And so I I've lived that from my very early days and saw that at Salesforce and HubSpot. And so there's a lot of really interesting lessons that you learn over time about creating customer value engagement in a world where your customers have a relatively easy path to change. So I luckily had seen a bunch of really great success and learn from a lot of folks at ADP then went on to see again, a really interesting success story in Salesforce.
Speaker 0 00:04:22 And then I had a really interesting run helping HubSpot go public and building a really great, what I feel is a really great SAS, not just economy, but culture and community. And like that's where I think HubSpot really stood out as we built community and culture around the value we were creating. So I think what happened is the folks at JMI and Santana having invested in vena and looking for a new leader, you know, we're tapping into someone who could help Venn or realize that same potential. And that's the challenge that I saw when I joined is that there's really this interesting opportunity to try to create value through community culture and the ways in which we build that forever promise for our customers.
Speaker 2 00:05:01 So at vena, how do you think about the role that community plays?
Speaker 0 00:05:07 I think vena had historically done a really great job of creating community between customer and culture, customer and company. And then you create opportunity then for customers to connect with each other, right? You created, whether it be, you know, small group sessions where you try to connect, you know, a CFO from one customer with four or five other CFOs, and you try to create a connectivity and we end up being kind of the facilitator of that engagement. So you create these small group connectivity opportunities, and then you start to think about, you know, should we build a great event where we bring all of our customers together? And so then I went through that path and got to a point of creating real community between customer to customer and also customer to accompany. And as we're thinking about the future and thinking about how we can impart our perspective on the, to be employed, to really, you know, plan, build and run a great company, we think that that dynamic of methodology before technology, right, engaging with our community, our content, our brand before you've even spent any money creates this really, really interesting and unique additional point of leverage, not just for us, but for our customers.
Speaker 0 00:06:19 And then by extension for the prospects folks that have never bought from us, but are engaging with our community and our content. And so that idea of actually connecting now customers to non-customers, to community members who aren't paying to company culture and eventually to, you know, third party experts, partners, folks that have perspective around the ecosystem that you're trying to build. That's where I think you create real magic and leverage. And I think in a lot of the readings I've done over the work, you've done this idea of creating a real poll so that folks aren't out there perennially, assessing their spend and deciding whether or not they want to go somewhere else to solve a problem. They're making decisions on feeling a part of a community that is changing and growing and always looking to solve, you know, the next month's problems, the next quarter's problems. And they feel like they're in it and learning together. And I think that's where you create real stickiness as a brand and real value as a company,
Speaker 2 00:07:18 You brought up so many really interesting points that I kind of want to tap into. And I recently interviewed Tina BN Keeney. Who's the CEO of mighty networks community platform. And so I really have, you know, community on the brain to summarize what you, what you said. I think you said that the first step to building community is building a one-to-one relationship, basically between the customer and culture and the culture being the company you, where they trust. Then, uh, they trust the organization. They feel like they know people there, they feel like you have their best interests at heart. They feel like you're continually improving the experience for them so that they can achieve that forever promise around growth and profitability. And then from there you moved to come for, for the company, stay for the fellow customers. So the relationship with your fellow customers, and then I think you were saying that you have a vision over time of expanding that to prospect. So non-customers and even other related experts, product suppliers, partners, where are you in that process right now? How does your community manifest today?
Speaker 0 00:08:28 Yeah, so the, the exciting thing is we did run a pretty exciting virtual events in may where we launched planned to grow.com. So plan to grow for us is going to be the hub for customer non-customer partner expert engagement. So we hope to one day have this asset where we're building a real value real community. It becomes more than just Vienna contributing to the, to the engagement in the thought leadership in the content we're producing. It actually starts to become more community driven about how folks engage in how people think about, you know, planning and running their businesses and how they think about, you know, assessing performance and, and managing financial statements and close management process. And all of that, that hopefully that plan to grow.com asset becomes more than a company asset. It starts to become a place where folks go to learn and share, and that may evolve over time.
Speaker 0 00:09:25 And it may not quite be that technology and that spot, that kind of website may not actually be the final technology that creates the real connectedness, but that's our first step towards that journey of creating value, both for customers, but also for those that are just exploring and thinking about being a better FP and a professional, a better operations, professional, better finance leader, a better business leader over time. So that's our first step anyways. And I think we're starting off on the right foot and I think making good progress, but we've got a long way to go.
Speaker 2 00:09:55 Is it free to join plant to grow.com? So anybody listening could join if they fit that profile and they're a finance or planning professional, whether or not they're a customer. So that's, that's really interesting that you've invested in that. I wanted to circle back to something that you said, I think it was methodology before product. Can you dig into what that means? What is the methodology that you're talking about?
Speaker 0 00:10:20 I kind of frame it as methodology before or methodology plus technology is I think the best brands in my, in my field. So in, in software, they, they, they, they start off essentially building a product to solve a particular problem. And that problem is usually fairly narrow. I would say a decade ago, people built software to solve a big wide problem. You go back 10 or 15 years ago. And then, and beyond the software that was being built was so heavy and clunky and time intensive to build that you built to solve a really big problem. Then you try to force fit it in. And once someone bought it, they were stuck with it. We're moving to this kind of lighter, faster, more agile development world, where people are out there building really nice, small bits of technology to solve very specific problems. Then they're trying to expand beyond that.
Speaker 0 00:11:12 So, and that's okay. And that's a great way to build a specifically, you know, companies like Slack and Atlassian, and those who built a real product, like grow strategy with a, you know, a tight value proposition and a light technology. And I think that's great to start out, but over time, if you're really going to create a forever promise it isn't about solving that particular problem. It's about helping customers achieve a set of outcomes where you feel that you have a unique advantage and a unique point of view to help them be better. You have a point of view on how to best do the work of that market of the target market you're going after. And some of it you'd probably solve with your technology, but great brands also acknowledged that that work is really difficult and big. If that, if you're trying to solve the role of a chief operating officer, that role is broad and no single product and a solve all their needs.
Speaker 0 00:12:07 So how do you start thinking about the methodology, right? The ways in which a CIO should really operate and where your product or your technology fits in, but there's all sorts of other products and offerings in servicing services within in the ecosystem that you have to be thoughtful about. non-US about and understand that they're going to need to lean on more than just your technology to really execute against this, you know, more, more fulsome methodology. And so for us, and I think for, you know, HubSpot Salesforce, ADP, and others, having the courage to share that methodology, to share that point of view about how to do things better and then partner and support it with really awesome technology. I think when you can get that together, you have a better chance of building quality of your brand. You have a better chance of building a healthy business. Almost most importantly, you have a better chance of building community because now you're not out there simply talking about your product. You're actually out there in the world of the operations, exactly the CFO or the marketer, trying to help their world in terms of trying to learn from them. As you continue to develop and evolve your point of view.
Speaker 2 00:13:13 I love what you're saying here for a bunch of reasons. I mean, I think what you're really doing is you're putting your customer's journey first. And a lot of people talk about customer journey and they're talking about the customer journey through my product, right? They click here and then they click there and then they use this feature and that feature, and really the customer's journey is I'm trying to run a business. I'm trying to plan for growth. I'm trying to be the best CFO that I can be, or the best accountant I can be, or the best doctor I can be. And one of the tools that I believe might help me achieve that is your tool, your product. It is not the center of my life, but it is one useful element of a, of a broader ecosystem, as you said. And so it becomes really important for the organizations that want to work with that person to recognize the world through that customer's lens, which is I'm trying to achieve this goal.
Speaker 2 00:14:08 And I have a bunch of different challenges and this company is going to solve some of those challenges. And once you start thinking like that, as you said, first of all, you can put a frame in front of that customer and say, this is where the world is going. Or this is where other people, this is the path other people like you have taken are taking. This is where the ones in front of you are. So we're pretty sure that you're going to need to get there. So we're going to anticipate that for you. And so that becomes really valuable. And it also allows you to continue to layer in more value because you're helping them on their journey instead of helping them with just the point that brought you in the front door. And in, in subscriptions, it's more important than almost anywhere else, because it's not enough to just have transaction. That transaction has to keep happening. As you pointed out, otherwise they're going to leave. So you have to keep layering in more value and being a little in front of that customer. So this methodology before technology is a concept that I hope people really take to heart.
Speaker 0 00:15:07 So, as you're saying, I love, I love the framing of the customer journey. Cause I agree with you is that when people do their customer journey mapping, it is always about, okay, when are they, when do they first engage with our brand and our product? How do they buy, how to use it? And it's not recognizing to your point, the journey, the customer's actually on, which is not just how they're using your products, but all the outcomes they're trying to achieve and how do you fit in and help them with that. And I think that customer journey also it's almost used interchangeably, but for me, it should be separated. Is there is a, there's a customer through the lens of the company. The company you're servicing is trying to get something done in B2B we're serving companies primarily. And so there's work. They're trying to get done in the functions, trying to get done.
Speaker 0 00:15:51 That's, that's a unique set of considerations for the company's journey, but then there's the person like the person who's primarily working with you and the people who are primarily working with your software, they're on their own journey, right? They're creating value for the company, but they're also on their own career journey. They're trying to learn and grow and get better. And that's beyond just how they use your product and how you think about helping that professional as an individual, as well as helping that company as a customer, I think matters. And if you can do both of those, that's when you start to really, I think get loyalty and get people kind of leaning into your brand and your community and the value you create.
Speaker 2 00:16:27 It's really important. I think one of the big differences, you know, a lot of the guests on this show have been consumer brands and people often say, is it the same principles for B to B brand or for a SAS brand, as it is for, you know, Netflix and the answer is, of course it's different as you pointed out and kind of the core of this particular episode, you can't just take the playbook from Netflix and plop it down at a B2B company. There's definitely a lot of differences. One of the big, important things about a B2B organization is remembering that you have multiple multiple members. The company is a member, the buyer is a member, the person who makes that decision to work with you and then the users, the people that are actually expected to use that technology to get their job done. And you have to think through what's your forever promise to each of them. And how did those three align in a way that serves them all, which is complicated.
Speaker 0 00:17:21 Yeah, absolutely. Like the interesting thing about even today where, you know, the, the cliched consumerization of kind of B2B software is happening where people are just expecting it to be easy to use and intuitive and easy to buy. Surprisingly, it's still tends to be a small group of decision makers, picking a technology. And the buyer is often, the buying group is often assessing the technology through the lens of company value, and then they, they buy and they force downstream and find out that the actual experience of a user in the product is nowhere near intuitive and useful in the way users expect. So this idea that as a builder of software, you have to be thinking about all the levels and of course, make sure that there are the tool sets to let the business understand and see and have insight into how the business is doing and create the necessary controls and reporting and all the things that you would need through the lens of a management layer.
Speaker 0 00:18:24 But then how do you make that user layer super intuitive and super useful and flexible enough to meet the needs of those consumers who now know what software should look like? You know, when we were, I was selling software again, 15, 20 years ago, the end user had no expectation of what software should do or should look like because they didn't use it in their personal lives. It was when you went to the office that you had this big green dos screen and you finally had. And so if you were told you had to key in 95 characters just to access your screen, you would do it. And we're just getting so use now as a society to using fast, intuitive, really helpful software that that's got to show up in B2B. And so I do think the companies like the big B2C companies are forcing the hand of B2B software companies to think differently about the end user experience. You don't just have to sell to the financial decision maker to make it stick. It has to be great for the user as well.
Speaker 2 00:19:23 Yeah. And that's why I think onboarding is such an important element of a good strategy for a SAS business. So once it's been bought, that's like the starting line, you know, it used to be the moment of transactions, the finish line, and the sales guy goes home and has a martini and is really happy that, you know, he's all done, but it's no longer that way. Right. You have to take that next step and figure out how to onboard the subscribers, the users. And I know, you know, Salesforce is kind of famous for having made a product that the salespeople actually wanted to use, that the users wanted to use and eventually their companies started buying it for them. How do you think about how onboarding has evolved with the companies that you've worked with and what is unique to the way that then onboard that might be different from some of the other places where you've worked either because it's more current or because Vienna is it's its own entity.
Speaker 0 00:20:18 Yeah. You know, the experience of implementation and onboarding, what are recommended best steps to get joy early. And how do you start to build that trust and credibility really quickly? So when I think about our journey now at Vienna, or as I think about onboarding in any SAS company, I think that onboarding starts before the, uh, before the purchase, if you're doing this well, a customer's already been in, has already seen what their world is going to look like through some part of your product. If you've got a big wide product, you might not be able to give them full access through free right away, but they've gotta be able to see and feel, and experience themselves in your product. So that by the time they've made the decision and they start onboarding, they're probably part way onboarded already. So you've created that moment of joy before they've even purchased.
Speaker 0 00:21:05 And for me, that's, that's kind of the Holy grail is how do you get to the point where if your product's not set up to allow customers to truly, self-employment like most B to C, if you're B2B and you still need help getting it set up well, how do you carve out bits and pieces of the experience that can be set up and felt by your customers in the evaluation stage so that you're building trust and credibility, and they're building comfort with your technology before they move to the full implementation phase. And so that idea of creating purposeful moments of joy quickly to accelerate overall time to value is kind of a lever that we're continuing to lean in. But I think every SAS company needs to lean in today.
Speaker 2 00:21:50 Do you have a metric for time to joy? And is it for your sales team or your customer success team or both?
Speaker 0 00:21:57 We still consider, instead of the moments of joy that the overall concept is still time to value for us is like the pure value equation for us as the customer has signed off and said, this is the promise you made to me. I feel like you've met it now. I'm running on my own. So that's a time to value metric. So we measure that and it's difficult to measure because the projects can range from simple to complex. The customers can say, Hey, I'm not ready to do it. Now give me another three weeks. I'll come back to you. So you don't totally control all elements of time to value, but it's still important to measure it. And we do time to value both through the lens of how quickly we get to the customer and the implementation post signature. And although the measure feels like it sits most appropriately with customer success, it is not only a customer success measure.
Speaker 0 00:22:49 It's a company measure because the way you build and design your product affects how easily it can be implemented, the way you set the promise and manage the sales process and set the expectations, aligns to how quickly and effectively you can meet those expectations. Um, the ways in which you market your value pulls the right customers in so that you're not now selling to customers, that aren't really a fit. So it's really a full funnel exercise, you know, product and marketing and sales and customer service, all working together to reduce time to value in our world. And, and you get there through these, like I say, purposeful insertions of moments of joy. I love the idea
Speaker 2 00:23:29 Of moments of joy. And I love the idea of shared metrics across functional areas. One of the things that I've I've experienced with sales organizations in B2B environments is they want to get to close. They want to get to close as quickly as possible. And the more people you bring in the, the sales cycle goes. And so bringing in your colleagues from let's say, customer support or professional services or customer success is going to slow things down, bringing in the eventual users of the product alongside the buyers is going to slow things down. So I'm really curious about best practices and things that you've learned about how to balance the need of the sales person to close the deal. And the understanding that closing the deal is meaningless. If you don't set that deal up for success for expansion, for, for retention, for engagement,
Speaker 0 00:24:22 Totally. That's a very big topic, big concept. If I kind of carve it into a few key considerations for me, the first one is actually culture, right, is how prevalent does customer value customer trust does living up to the promise does kind of ethical behavior show up in your values and in your culture and how you talk about it and how you reward and recognize folks. And how quickly do you take action when those values are being broken or challenged or dismissed. So I think that's the number one thing. And as you're growing a business, you can over index on revenue and the need to find it. And I absolutely acknowledge that building, whether it's a B to C startup or a B2B startup is really hard work, and you have to take the revenue and you can find it. There is a point in time though, where taking any revenue is truly counterproductive to meeting your forever promise or building a business that lasts.
Speaker 0 00:25:23 And so at that point, you know, my suggestion is always leaning to making the right call and getting the right customer. But early on in a business, you sometimes don't even know what the right customer is yet and what you really can do. So you tend to over index index on taking revenue, but as you're scaling that idea of building a culture that embraces and cherishes and protects customer trust and customer value to me is, is step one, step two then is to your point is how do you set up shared objectives and make sure that your compensation systems and your targets and your goal orientation, doesn't, over-index too much one way or the other. And through the lens of over-indexing on customer value, where you are never going to sell a customer who doesn't absolutely 100% fit within a very prescribed box of what we deliver and how we deliver it.
Speaker 0 00:26:11 And we're never gonna allow a customer to sign unless they've signed off on the 17 commitments, they're making that they understand here's all the limitations. If you go that far, you index so much to never disappointing a customer. You're obviously going to have real difficulty in the market because you're competing against companies who say, of course, we can do that and come join our family. And so you can't, over-index too much there. And obviously you can't, over-index on revenue is the ultimate decision maker that just getting revenue in the door, can't be the end, all be also getting this like balanced, shared set of targets and goals and objectives into your operating system. I think matters a ton. And so I really encourage sales teams to make sure that they do have customer attention metrics and that you are measuring. You do know that as a sales person what's being measured is the health of your customer base.
Speaker 0 00:27:01 As you're selling, you've been at the company for a year or two, knowing that your leadership team is actually measuring the health of your customer base against the average health of the customer base of the company is important because we want to make sure that we don't have outliers. We don't have sales reps that are selling really bad fit deals consistently because that'll show up in customer attention, customer satisfaction, metrics of that con of that sales reps install base. And so you want to make sure you're, you're being purposeful about those measures and metrics. That would be number two, and then number three, the F and P call it the final is true customer orientation around satisfaction, value, and feedback. And so if you lean into getting feedback from your customers, post-sale about their experience. Post-implementation about their experience during use, and you're trying to always match. Are we delivering against the promise know, did we meet the expectations of the brand promise that we made and staying really close to that? As long as that stays healthy, you've probably built the right measures and metrics that are shared, and you've probably got the right overarching culture, helping people make good decisions about, you know, who's going to be a customer and how we're going to support them.
Speaker 2 00:28:19 It's really interesting. You talk a lot about, about data and I'm imagining the dashboard that you use and that your various functional and team leads are using. And I think I've heard you say, leaders need a data rich diet, and then you've said, but data lies. How do you, how do you balance those two?
Speaker 0 00:28:42 The challenge was not using data is obviously you end up with a whole bunch of unsustained, unsubstantiated decision-making and effort being applied. And there are, of course, the stories where, you know, the, the decision maker who flies by the seat of their pants and has a good, strong gut has made some good decisions in the past and had built good businesses, but over time, understanding, uh, uh, data and the dynamics of the ecosystem you're trying to build, I think matters a ton. And so obviously we lean into that. And actually one of the things that I care about a lot is like, is looking at data through the right, right lenses. And for Vienna, the way we look at it, we have a health dashboard effectively, and it has three primary components. The first is customer health. And we have a bunch of metrics that tell us whether or not our customer base is healthy, whether or not they're doing the things they should be doing at the product.
Speaker 0 00:29:30 And they're their, uh, their satisfaction levels are high. Their renewal rates are high. So we have a customer health view and that's, that's our number one view trying to put customer first. Then we actually have an employee health dashboard, which talks to things like the state of our employee, our vendor, we call it vendor life survey, the state of the employee sentiment, a social position we have based on our employer brand, the ways in which we're hiring the sources, the diversity of the hiring that we're doing. So how are we living up to all these measures around employee health? And so that that's an important lens. And then the final one is business health, and that's all those real core financial metrics about in SAS. You, you measure lifetime value against the cost of acquisition. That's a really important metric. So that's where the core metrics of how you run a SAS business show up.
Speaker 0 00:30:16 I think that's important to understand that the, you know, you need to look at data through a number of lenses. And my, my belief has always been it's customer, employee and business health. And you have to look at those and then I'd say, be careful. Then when you do have a rich set of data that on first pass, data can very often lie and people don't necessarily purposely lie, but people always lean into the lens on data that best supports their point of view. So I push on my leadership team and our whole company to make sure that we're having a strong, healthy debate, that once we see a chart, that looks really good. Don't just assume it's telling the whole story that we know the story. People often confuse correlation for causation, and, uh, the, you know, the DoubleClick or triple click on data is always important. Never take data at face value and make big decisions. You just have to, you have to spend the time as a leadership team digging in. And double-clicking
Speaker 2 00:31:14 Great. So I want to finish up with a speed round. So I want you to just answer really quick with what pops into your mind. First, first advice for executives who are about to take a leadership role at their second or third subscription business,
Speaker 0 00:31:28 Listen and learn before you, before you act. I think it's the worst possible leadership move is to go in and think, you know, when you're going to apply what, you know, listen and learn and be truly humbled to understand what's created the success in the culture to this point, to then try to build from that.
Speaker 2 00:31:43 And what about executives who have a longterm vision and really want to take care of their customer, but are feeling pressure to hit short term revenue targets
Speaker 0 00:31:53 Balance it don't over-index one way or the other. And I know there are pressures if you have specific pressures one way or the other, I think your job is to, is to push back. You cannot get too shortsighted, uh, nor can you absolve yourself with the responsibility to find the revenue needed, to keep the business, to keep the lights on while you're pursuing your mission. So it's about balancing and managing, uh, managing to push back, uh, at the right levels. If it's, if it's feeling too one sided
Speaker 2 00:32:21 First subscription you ever had,
Speaker 0 00:32:23 Ooh, newspaper,
Speaker 2 00:32:26 Favorite subscription you have now
Speaker 0 00:32:28 I feel, I almost feel crazy saying this because it's, it's not that new or interesting, but I was never really a Netflix person until the lockdowns. So we've, you know, we've been shut down for six months and I've found tremendous value in a bunch of documentaries and business and a bunch of entertainment too. So it was, I'm actually really liking my Netflix.
Speaker 1 00:32:51 That's awesome. And, uh, what is your super power?
Speaker 0 00:32:54 Oh, it's funny. I just, I just did a, probably heard of the behavioral assessment tool disc. I don't know if you have it anyways, but anyways, I did an eight years ago. I did it again. And I think it's that I'm, I'm willing to step up to the responsibility of flexing my style. So I think I've really been purposeful about realizing that I have certain natural tendencies that can be counterproductive to building a great team and a great culture. And so those natural tendencies, which tend to be high goal orientation and kind of just get the job done, I need to flex and balance with collaboration, teamwork, and, and creating a, you know, a steady and calm influence while trying to accomplish great things. So I think, I think right now, I'd say I'm relatively happy with my ability to flex kind of styles as needed
Speaker 1 00:33:39 Luck style, man. Thank you so much, Hunter. This was fantastic. And chock full of really applicable tips and strategies for anybody trying to build a subscription business. Thank you so much for making time for us.
Speaker 0 00:33:52 Yeah, it was great. Robbie, thanks and nice to chat with you again.
Speaker 1 00:33:59 Thanks for listening everyone. I'm Robbie Kellman Baxter, and this has been subscription stories today. I was talking with Hunter madly, CEO of vena. You'll find out more about Hunter as well as a transcript of our conversation at Robbie Kellman, baxter.com/podcast, to hear other success stories of entrepreneurs and executives creating their forever transaction in this new and exciting membership economy. Subscribe to my podcast wherever you listen most Also, if you like what you heard, please take a moment to give me a star rating and to write a review. It takes less than a minute and it helps other people like you find our show. Thanks for listening and thanks for your support.
